Zhang Junning (L) and a supporting actor who I don't think is one of the six leads. (R) on the set of Chinese High School Musical
It’s not a joke. Disney has long been desperate to tap into China’s market, even going so far as to co-produce with China films like The Magic Gourd and The Forbidden Kingdom. Furthermore, Disney’s Chinese connections seem to be based in Shanghai, where a new themepark finally got the ok after years of Disney pushing for it. So perhaps it is not surprising that HSM, already popular in China, will be remade with funding from Shanghai-based megacorporations Hua Yi and SMG. The early reports said BOBO would be in this, and somehow, strangely, it changed to Zhang Junning who’s not even a actor under Hua Yi.
Hua Yi president,Wang Zhonglei was at the production start ceremony held on Nov. 22nd. He said that despite the lack of many successful musicals in China (poor Le Huo Nan Hai!), he expects this to have a big box office when it arrives in theaters next summer. Usually I have more faith in his statements, because Hua Yi’s well managed and their success rate is high, but the casting of Zhang Junning perplexes me, and brings me even more apprehension than just the baseline idea of “Chinese HSM remake”. He’s hot, and can sing and dance pretty decently, but less charismatic of actor than either Zac Efron or Jing Boran from BOBO. Maybe charisma wasn’t necessary for the character? It’s been a while since I watched it. Nevertheless, I still hope this does help kick-start the Chinese musical genre despite my all my reservations.
For those more interested in information about the film, Hua Yi, SMG , the director and crew, and the history of Disney’s involvement in Chinese entertainment, here’s a massive English-language article from Yahoo fiance with tons of details that, that I only found after I typed this up. Which sucks…but eh, my post has pictures.
Tags: High School Musical, Zhang Junning
November 22, 2009 at 10:37 pm
T_T
BOBO…
November 22, 2009 at 10:45 pm
BOBO boys just can’t catch a break…how come they get dinky projects like that Nonstop series that some Korean sitcom director decided “would be a good idea” for China to remake, whereas Zhang Junning gets a project that freaking Disney decided would be a good idea to remake?
And while I love Disney…this quote creeped me out a bit:
Shanghai Disneyland is of enormous importance to Disney…potentially its most effective means of converting the country’s more than 1.3 billion residents into consumers of Disney DVDs, toys, video games and more.
November 22, 2009 at 11:52 pm
^ LOL.
I just had an image of UFO and Chinese people underneath that. Don’t ask. But everyone is trying to break into the Chinese market now.
Btw, the other day I was just reading an article fro the Chinese newspaper, and it was saying that many Chinese people thinks they need to stop giving opportunities to foreigners.. especially the whole Jang Nara incident.
November 23, 2009 at 12:13 am
Jang Nara? oh you mean what she said on Strong Heart about dipping in Chinese market for funds whenever she is short of cash? lol she just honestly said what she and every other k-pop artist/entertainment company are thinking of anyway (i mean look at SJ-M, the kmemeber still can’t speak basic mandarin after working in mandopop industry for 2 years). I am not offended by her comment, I just find the reaction to her comment to be really funny – she just said what everyone already known anyway yet people make this huge deal out of it…
November 23, 2009 at 12:15 am
p.s. it sucks that BOBO won’t be appearing in the movie, i guess Disney want a more seasoned cast
but they have a album coming out right?? finally ^_^
November 23, 2009 at 12:20 am
where could i watch le huo nan hai? and do you know whose going to play the lead girl if zhang junning is playing Troy from HSM?
November 23, 2009 at 12:26 am
@yelei and curious
Some have been thinking that for a while, but the Jang Nara incident seems to have made the mass public aware.
With regards to Disney, it’s actually not so bad because films require so much funding and can’t risk failure, that China has quotas on imported films just like many other countries. So Disney has to give back – aka coproduce films with China to be “counted” as a Chinese production. In the process, they give China filmmaking knowledge, and there’s no better company to learn animation techniques from. And a themepark – while it makes money for Disney, could create thousands of jobs.
With Jang Nara there wasn’t as much of reciprocal relationship. Her entourage, producers, etc were Korean. It’s a shame – she was the most loved Korean celebrity, and was given the honor of being the only foreigner in the Beijing Welcomes You MV, but her statement was careless, a slap in the face, but it was a slap in the face I’m glad for.
I wish the government would add quotas. It’s done wonders for the growth of Chinese film – it’s good for a developing industry. It’s only after the industry’s established that competition becomes useful. If you let already established competition in early, it just kills potential for growth in a developing market.
And why don’t people know that there’s quotas in every country? That’s history 101 from middle school or beginning of high school. Some people think it’s barbaric or antiquated something – no. Obama just slapped those tire tariffs on China. There’s quotas from every country on everything. We are a product of quotas. Our parents were probably extremely nerdy or rich or had something else to offer the US to immigrate over .
I wouldn’t lump every Korean trying to make money in the same pile though. Kim Dongwan has never really actively pursued the Chinese market as hard as some, and he still donated a large amount to the Sichuan earthquake reflief. And Nathan Lee seems to really just enjoy China. Of course I used to think that about Jang Nara. -_-
I’m not going to say anything else about… bc I said I wouldn’t – they’re a quintessential SM group, and consequently people are really attached to them and their feeling get hurt over it. Sometimes – people just don’t want to know, and that’s kind of understandable.
@L – no idea – haven’t looked too much into this yet. If more news comes out and the production stills look good I might post it.
November 23, 2009 at 1:12 am
And I just realized – I posted two drama/film related news right after I said I wouldn’t – I suck at keeping to my statements about future posts.
November 23, 2009 at 1:47 am
You know the cast yet?
November 23, 2009 at 1:57 am
^There are names floating around the internet but they’re not really famous and so I decided not to waste time to look up their details. Might do it winter break, or when character posters come out or something.
November 23, 2009 at 2:13 am
ok sounds good
November 23, 2009 at 2:21 am
@cfensi: it was a entire page on foreigners who did or said something which harmed their career in Mainland China.
People in the article:
- Lin Zhi Ling
- Rainie Yang (People is still bringing up that she carelessly said “Oh it’s only 8 years of war” between China and Japan)
- Ah Mei
- Jang Nara
and that US(?) celebrity who dissed China saying it was karma that Sichuan Earthquake happened. Apparently, Chinese people stopped purchasing the products she advertised for and stopped watching her films
November 23, 2009 at 2:27 am
Rainie Yang – not sure if she’s forgiven, but she said way more dumb, offensive crap than just that. It’s like she just spewed out prejudiced remarks one after the other.
Sharon Stone? She got dropped by the cosmetic label she advertised for in China – she probably didn’t even know she did ads for China.
Lin Zhiling and Ah Mei seem to have been forgiven mostly and they seem to have been understandable, not purposely offensive remarks – I don’t blame them; Back then Taiwan didn’t know much about mainland China because Taiwan didn’t really allow that much mainland media in before.
I don’t know – I guess if you look at the broad history of it all, Chinese are pretty forgiving – unless you uncaringly talk about victims of one of one of China’s biggest natural disasters and people who suffered bc of that loss – so maybe the Jang Nara thing will just fade. She still has diehard fans supporting her in China.
November 23, 2009 at 2:39 am
Lol one word comes to my mind:
Golddigger. LOL
But yaaa it’s gonna to away
November 23, 2009 at 3:55 am
Shanghai Disneyland…umm…I never liked Disney, but let’s see how this is going to turn out.
About the Jang Nara’s incident, I actually felt bad for her. I read that she never made those remarks, but the caption was added on for the purpose of the show. Even if she did mean what she said, she was telling the truth like how it is for all the other foreigners.
As for Rainie, hers is a different story. Her parents came from mainland China, but she seems so prejudiced against it. What’s up with that?
November 23, 2009 at 3:59 am
@yelei
Rainie Yang should just really be quiet…she has said so many regionalist comments in various occasions that shows her ignorance a lot more than the forgetting of a historical event.
Meanwhile, A-mei took a more informed stance on a political issue. While I may not agree with it, I don’t think less of her because of it.
@random people
I think what really hurts is the realization of something that people have ignored. Sometimes, what makes people really outraged is when their own flaws are pointed out.
November 23, 2009 at 4:04 am
I wish that Disneyland could’ve been placed in a place that is more isolated and needs the development. Ie. in the West…but the West had twice the percentage of GDP increase in the last quarter than the East!
Shanghai doesn’t need the money at all, not with the already overcrowding.
November 23, 2009 at 4:23 am
@Angela – Maybe her parents’ background was the problem. Maybe they had to overcompensate. But her remarks were too many, and not just careless, but bordering on vicious for me to really think of her the same way. And like idarklight said – she simply sounded mind-boggling ignorant. And while I don’t hate her or anything for that – there are a lot smarter Taiwanese female celebs for me to spend my time on, to pay attention to.
But then again, it’s not just in Taiwan. After I started this site I began to realize how prejudiced some mainland Chinese Americans were about their own culture. I feel like a lot of people had to “fit in” and so repelled that part of themselves. At first I was incredibly disdainful of anyone who was like that – if you can only say bad things about your own heritage and culture, then I have zero respect for you – but I realized most people weren’t raised the same way as I was. It doesn’t help that American media primarily focuses on the bad news in China, and because China is reported on a lot, the news sticks in people’s minds, but it’s getting better.
There’s was an interesting article in the recent issue of Times magazine – using the word “panda hugger”, which is apparently the label for someone who says good things about China. A quoted person in Time wished to be anonymous because he didn’t want to be labeled as a “panda hugger”.
I read Time a lot, and that’s the first time I ever heard them show the perspective of someone willing to say something like that. Amazing. America is progressing. <3
@idarklight – Oh, China doesn't need a Disney to develop her west. Maybe after it develops, Disney can put one there.
And while the truth hurts sometimes, it’s a natural human reaction that no one’s immune to. Sometimes it should be told and sometimes not. One just has to make their own best judgment at that pont.
November 23, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Cfensi! I read that Time acticle too. It was the one named something like “five things we should learn from china”
November 23, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Yup…that’s the one! It’s nice to see the progress America has made, and America has definitely progressed. Make me proud to be Chinese American. Hopefully one day there won’t be any animosity btw the two countries, because really, historically China keeps to herself.
Oh, and here’s a Hollywood Reporter article about China’s HSM:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/asia/china/e3ied5661580e6e68a198a8447372969f98
Apparently this is a bigger deal than I thought – It’s being entirely funded by Disney. They must be really, really desperate to tap into Chinese market potential. Although they have all the rights too. So if it’s a big failure, I won’t cry about it.
November 23, 2009 at 3:39 pm
@ cfensi
> I wish the government would add quotas.
> It’s done wonders for the growth of Chinese film –
> it’s good for a developing industry.
I completely agree. If there were no quotas, I think Disney wouldn’t even bother trying to do a Chinese version and just try and flood the market with their already-made stuff.
And it’s weird how Americans (and many other countries) are ok with the “Buy American” and “Made in the USA”-type slogans but once it’s Chinese people doing it everyone freaks out and thinks China wants to declare war or something.
@ yelei
RE: Lin Zhi Ling, Rainie, and Ah Mei
If China really wants to bring Taiwan into the fold maybe they should stop referring to Taiwanese celebrities as “foreigners”
@ Angela
> As for Rainie, hers is a different story.
> Her parents came from mainland China,
> but she seems so prejudiced against it.
> What’s up with that?
I’ve actually met a few ABCs like this. They seem to think they’re so much better than the native-Chinese simply because they grew up in the States and can speak unaccented English.
What’s worse is when they visit China or Taiwan and all they want to eat is McDonald’s and other fast foods! At that point I just want to slap them…
November 23, 2009 at 4:48 pm
@cfensi
but the plan was approved by the Chinese government, and it makes me worried that the government didn’t push for development in the West and instead gave in to Disney like that when it’s really not a good idea. Shanghai is already huge, does it really need Disney? I feel like in this deal, Disney profited a lot more than Shanghai.
——
I personally loved the part in the article about taking care of the elders. It’s one of the things that have always bothered me about American culture. It’s also a reason I use to retort the idea that Americans are more “polite” or “cultured,” as many studies have tried to prove. Yes, maybe we don’t say thank you to the cashier, but we also don’t leave our parents in retirement homes. What’s socially acceptable varies by culture and values, and no one group is lesser or better than another in such aspects.
November 23, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Alot of people from Taiwan were from China, and I guess some parents don’t talk about how China is like with their children. It’s a shame.
@JJ:
I know what you mean. They have this attitude: “As long as I know English better than you people, then there’s no need to learn Chinese or whatever..” seriously. Some are so desperate to fit into the American culture that they forgot who they really are.
Regarding the Chinese calling Taiwanese foreigners, both sides are at fault. When I encountered many Taiwanese people, I ask them are they Chinese, they instantly replied saying “they’re Taiwanese” People like them I usually avoid those Taiwanese/Chinese comments. Some get really offensive because they’re called Chinese. I guess it really depends on how the people viewed it, if they liked to be known as Taiwanese then let them be.
What did Ah Mei and Lin Zhi Ling do to anger the Chinese people?
I feel as if everything is happening in either Beijing and Shanghai.. most time. It’s time that people invest in other cities & provinces. I understand the living condition is better in those two cities, but isn’t it better to invest in other cities to decrease the gap between the poor and the rich.. you know have it balance.
November 23, 2009 at 5:01 pm
@cfensi: personally I dont think Americans are “polite” especially if you’re living in cities. I know for a fact that chidren in middle and high school are rude to teachers. They think just because they’re living in a country where they have the rights to speak, but I get so annoyed when students bitched about their teachers telling them not to talk or put cellphones away. Then the students give this big attitude to the teacher. Americans are spoiled. -_- not all, but most.
November 23, 2009 at 6:19 pm
@ idarklight
I completely agree. Americans might be more polite to strangers, but that’s mainly because Chinese people reserve their politeness for family and friends.
I remember so many instances where a person might be some what distant (even rude) but once they find out you’re a friend of a friend or something like that they instantly become so warm and kind
Haha!
And like you said, it’s mainly based on what each culture deems as important, e.g. in Chinese culture, if you were to show up at a family member’s house unannounced no one would think anything bad about it; but in American culture that’s a huge no-no.
* * *
@ yelei
RE: English
Of course there is something to be said about how some native-Chinese people treat those who speak English well.
It’s like they’ll give undue praise simply because the kid grew up in the States.
Now that doesn’t give ABCs the right to act like jerks, but like you mentioned, both sides have some blame.
RE: Taiwanese vs. “Chinese”
Here’s the thing, I’m Taiwanese, but I also consider myself Chinese as well. Similar to how a Shanghainese, Hong Kong-er, and even an ABC are also Chinese.
And if you ever meet a Taiwanese person who insists they are “Taiwanese,” then ask them if the consider China’s history—like the 3 Kingdoms and Tang Dynasty—as a part of their history.
Most likely they will, and then they’ll try to rationalize one way or another but at that point they’ll realize how silly they sound.
RE: Ah Mei
I don’t know what Lin Zhi Ling did but for Ah Mei I feel that the Mainland did overreact a little.
All she did was sing the Taiwan anthem at Chen Shui-bian’s presidential inauguration. I guess I can see why they were upset, but to ban her like that seemed too petty.
They should have done something else like invite her to sing China’s anthem
November 23, 2009 at 6:29 pm
@JJ
I understand A-mei’s point of view, though. She’s actually native Taiwanese instead of the other 90% of Taiwan’s population. I don’t think she would’ve sung mainland’s anthem, and I don’t blame her for it.
But it’s unfair that the other 90% would lay claim to their Chinese heritage, thrive on an economy that is mostly supported by mainland, yet degrade and look down upon that same land and its people.
November 23, 2009 at 6:43 pm
@JJ & idarklight: I know some Taiwanese people thinks they’re better than Chinee people. I guess it’s because Taiwan is more developed than China.
@JJ: It’s not often that I hear Taiwanese people calling themselves “Taiwanese” but yes I agree with you because I think it’s kind of silly. In Taiwan you speak Mandarin as well, but if you speak a completely different language then I would understand. Several of my American friends would ask what’s the difference between Chinese and Taiwanese.. lol. I find that hilarious.
November 23, 2009 at 7:54 pm
@yelei
Or on youtube comments, when people are like, “I wish I could learn Taiwanese so I can understand what people in this drama is saying!” when really, they’re all speaking mandarin.
November 23, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Wow…they’re making a pretty big deal out of HSMchina, I’ve read like 5 english articles on it.
I really liked the “Taking Care of the Elderly” section from TIME. It was really true.
November 23, 2009 at 10:53 pm
I think it’s fair to say that everyone is trying to break into the Chinese market. It’s a big untapped resource for funding. Heck, if I could find out a way to break into its market too, I would (and I am an ABC.) So I do not begrudge Disney for having ambitious plans for China. I only hope China won’t get sucked into its vortex. Then again, China has its own vortex of dramas that sucks just about anyone in. U.S. better watch its back.
I really enjoy the way you analyze various situations in China/America. Being an ABC myself, I am ashamed to say that I used to be the same way – ignoring my heritage, arrogant about my U.S. citizenship, and I was even PROUD at one point that I only knew limited Chinese, compared to natives. Negative news about Asia in general, about how it’s a 3rd world country, and the citizens are hicks made me ashamed of being Chinese. Of course, childrens’ taunting didn’t help. How many of us didn’t grow up under the influence of “Ching Chongs!” and falsely imitative utterances of the Chinese language?
As I grew older, though, that negative image of China slowly faded. I should probably thank Taiwanese/HK dramas for that. I appreciated the culture a little more because of the image its entertainment field presented. I adapted and understood their way of thinking, acting, and though I might not always accept it, I just take it as a cultural difference.
It still has tons of flaws that could be worked on, but for the most part, it’s improving. Being Chinese sometimes may still have its negative connotations (like how it’s cheap, so things made in the country is likely cheap quality, and thus, by association, we’re cheap too), but it’s also working towards producing a positive image. I can only help that it continues to go well.
In America now, the sentiment is mostly a mixture of fear, disdain and false reverence for China. The U.S. wants to use China to its advantage, but the by product is, they’re having associations with a country they used to belittle, so fear and a bit of resentment is mixed in. The negative image that still hasn’t shed isn’t helping either. This is where entertainment should come in. Look at Korea. Because of the way they’re handling entertainment these days, they’re pulling in fans and favor. If China can follow suit and organize their entertainment spheres, they’re golden. Sadly, however, China has never looked at entertainment with respect. Though it’s improving in that aspect, it still lags behind small honchos like Korea and Japan (understandable given how developed they are.)
My point is, China really needs to address the entertainment industry. If they want to attract global customers, not only to its business industry but to its culture as well, they need to present something to the table. And I think entertainment really is key to that recipe.
November 23, 2009 at 11:07 pm
I also adore Rainie Yang…consider her my guilty pleasure. In terms of intelligence, I’m not sure I can rely on her, but personality-wise, she’s great. And though she’s made an insensitive remark in the past (about the 8 year war), I thought the situation was magnified to the extreme. Maybe when she said it, she only thought that the war’s duration was longer, which would explain the resentment China has towards Japan. Because the duration was short, and relatively speaking, 8 years is comparatively shorter than some of the battles history has recorded, I think she meant it in a surprised way…not in a way that means to offend.
For example, say a coworker was having a silent war with another coworker for over a month. No one reacts weirdly around the two, only acknowledging that there is a cold war.
Seeing this as rather unusual, you might ask how long it’s been that way. If the coworkers say, it’s been a month, one may be surprised and say, “oh, only a month (when the behavior seems like it’s been this way forever?)”
See what I mean? I’m not sure if I’m getting the point across, but this is how I saw the situation.
November 24, 2009 at 2:55 am
@Ivana B. AnonymousP:
I agree that Jpop is popular and the music industry is quite diversed, whereas the mainstream Kpop is mainly idol artists. These people are whats bringing in more international fans. When I first started following this blog, I always question why isn’t Chinese music as popular as Korean music, and wanted Chinese companies to follow Korean tactics – trainees! After being here for awhile I slowly changed my opnion. Kpop is awesome, but it’s mainly loaded with idol artists/groups. Look at MAMA awards.. you dont see any older generation artists attending. I rather see Cpop use Japanese as their example instead of Kpop. For the pas 5 years or so, many Korean artists commited suicide which makes people wonder if Kpop is really that great after all.
November 24, 2009 at 3:53 am
@ yelei:
Kpop isn’t only about idol artists. It’s also very diverse in the film industry, models, and producing idol singers. Most of their trainees are well-rounded; they can do just about anything.
Though I agree that the death rate is somewhat disconcerting, you have to understand that Korea itself is very small in comparison to China. Because Korea is so small, diversity and space is often unheard of. In opposition to China, Korea just doesn’t have enough areas around it for celebrities to feel free. On the other hand, China is big — there’s greater amount of privacy, and you’re not restricted to anything (besides the usual rated R stuff); there are plenty of opportunities.
I’m not saying we should start having our own artist-pumping machines. But at the very least, having a cohesive entertainment industry is a must. As of now, I feel that China has a very scattered population of talents. No one knows exactly what is going on; there is no theme. Compared to U.S. where the entertainment field is mostly concentrated in Hollywood, LA, NY, SF, etc., China has dotted lines of work all over the place. We need an area of concentration.
Maybe China already has one, and I’m just too unaware to notice it. But for the most part, I don’t feel its cohesiveness and I wish it wasn’t so.
November 24, 2009 at 5:13 am
@Ivana B. Anonymous:
What I mean by diverse in the music industry is different genres of music. Ever since Wonder Girl’s Tell Me was a huge hit, everyone starts to follow the trend of having repetitive lyrics. I mean yes it’s fun to listen to, but when you have everyone doing the same thing, it gets boring. Now everything is autotuned because of western influence.
Getting back to the music. many powerful vocal groups tend to disappear due to the apperance of idol artists. How come artists like Navi, Tae, W&Whale, TaeIn, Namolla Famiy, Yozoh, Suho, 1sagain aren’t peforming? Where’s indie? rock? blue? heavy metal? I don’t see many underground bands being discovered yet I see overpackaged groups.
That’s the thing not all idol artists can act. They’re bunch of people with different talents mixed into a group and tada you have yourself a group that can do almost anything. Why not just let those who can act go into acting?
November 24, 2009 at 5:39 am
I am a bit tired and short on time, so I apologize if my responses sound a bit terse or anything – it’s not meant to be. I’m just trying to save time
@ JJ – about China’s chances of unification being better by not calling Taiwanese foreigners:
I agree, but ultimately the status quo won’t change based on what China says. I feel mainland has embraced Taiwanese actors, culture, etc in that hope. CCTV even has some sort of program to help build up Taiwanese actors. But if the relationship is not reciprocal, if Taiwan is closed off to mainland media, then it doesn’t matter if Chinese feels Taiwanese are sisters and brothers. The unification issue basically lies with Taiwan’s decision. There’s nothing China can really do directly to change that. From my end, I do feel like there is a natural love, and affinity with Taiwan and Taiwanese, and the culture. However, I also feel that a bit like this has no end, it’s alway a maybe/maybe not issue. I guess there is some unconditional love the mainland holds – I guess I feel that way too at times, and at times it’s so taxing.
@Ivana B. Anonymous.
First, I’m really glad that you are proud of being Chinese after getting into the entertainment. It makes me feel like idarklight and I are not just on an empty soapbox and that this is worthwhile. I’m glad that ABCs are starting to feel proud of themselves – times are changing.
Second – While personally I have no issue with Disney, because I think the relationship is reciprocal, I do think the “Well, I can’t blame them” mentality is wrong. You could apply that to when the western powers were trying to carve out pieces of Africa for themselves. Everyone was doing it, there was something to be gained, so why not? But basically it’s a one-sided exploitation of a non-established system by a well-established one that has the upper hand. But China’s quotas prevent Disney from simply taking advantage.
My feelings on Rainie Yang are not based on that statement, at least not just that statement. No one expects her to be brushed up on history. It’s the rest of her statements, like Chinese don’t wear pajamas, etc, and I forget some, because I read it a while ago, but added together she was just being vicious. She probably does have her charm, and I don’t begrudge people liking her.
Thirdly, America doesn’t just have Hollywood – it also has New York. China has Beijing and Shanghai, and Changsha. I agree partially on your assessment that China needs more coordination btw different regions. But I think that too much concentration is a problem. In America – people just go for interviews one on one to shows in NY. Too concentrated allows variety shows to develop and I personally think that the variety shows in Asia are fun, and can make one really attached to certain artists, but that’s a problem. It allows too much personality through – and less emphasis on what the fun personalities are producing in terms of quality of music.
Fourth, Kpop is really not that diverse. Of course it’s not 100% idols, that seems like a physical impossibility, but it really is still too dominated by boybands/girlbands. You can’t blame Kpop for being less diverse than Jpop – Kpop started much later and timewise Japan just trumps everyone in Asia. I do think you can blame the Kpop companies’ money-focused trainee idol system which has impeded real growth in their music industry. Kpop may enjoy popularity, but it’s not the same popularity enjoyed by Jpop whose companies don’t make export a do or die mission- I don’t know how sustainable that is.
I don’t see a problem with Korea’s film or drama industry. I don’t think it’s the best thing ever, and again, it developed late, so it has room to grow, but unlike Kpop, I don’t see a glaring problem with the system and it can grow.
Btw, thanks for taking the time to leave all the comments! Love reading them even if I can’t reply to all.
November 24, 2009 at 6:27 am
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/art/2009/11/201_54690.html
That’s a good article regarding Korea’s idol-based music industry. I agree with almost all of what the guy says.
It’s not that the idols aren’t talented. A lot of them are (and, in my opinion, Korean idols are a lot more talented than Japanese ones). But there’s no real artistry to them. They’re just products, branded with a “Made in Korea” stamp.
I don’t think China is ready for that type of idol-producing “system” yet. How many Chinese parents would allow their child to focus less on their high school studies and pursue a career as a singer, after all. Even now, a large chunk of singers in China are graduates from some music school or conservatory.
But judging by the way China is developing, I’d imagine that the Chinese music scene will be completely different in ten years’ time as people get wealthier.
Do you think you’ll still be running this blog by then, cfensi? c( :
November 24, 2009 at 9:53 am
@ cfensi
RE: Taiwan and China
I completely agree with what you’re saying. I think the people making the biggest stink about this are certain Taiwanese politicians that are afraid of losing power if unification were to happen.
As for the general public, I think their greatest fear is what will happen to their “stuff.” Like their land, their money, their inheritance, etc.
And so the politicians are able to goad people into reacting negatively with fear.
I really hope we can learn to set aside these differences and work together because we really will be stronger if we do.
(That being said, we Chinese do have a lot of regional bias and stereotypes
Northerners vs. Southerners, Shanghainese vs. Beijinese, etc.)
* * *
@ Ivana B. Anonymous
I can completely relate with what you’re saying. If I hadn’t been exposed to TVB dramas as a kid while growing up in the States I’m sure I would be a completely different person today.
Of course, that also goes to show how scary media can be
* * *
RE: Korea vs. Japan
I’m not sure if I’m right in this observation, but Korea’s film industry seems to mirror Japan’s music industry while Japan’s film/tv-series industry is like Korea’s music industry.
What I mean is, in Japan, they seem to have a strong music consumer-base, so that musicians can make money by doing music.
But with Japanese films/TV-series, a lot of it is dominated my major companies and most of the actors make money doing commercials and endorsements.
And this seems to be the reverse in Korea, where actors are very well paid while the pop idols seem to rely on ads and that’s why a lot of them try to cross over into acting.
So in a way, each countries industry is catering to their audience (or at least what they perceive their audience wants).
* * *
@ Benji
That’s a good article!
> How many Chinese parents would allow their
> child to focus less on their high school studies
> and pursue a career as a singer, after all.
But aren’t Koreans and Japanese just as strict with their kids? And they also have the entrance exam system as well.
November 24, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Asians parents are strict in general and I personally think it’s easier for younger children to achieve fame if they are in Japan or Korea. The size of China is bigger than both of the countries and it takes alot to please their audiences even though we all know it’s impossible to satisfy everyone. Cfensi or idarklight is right about Chinese people being very critical of their own music, films, and dramas.
You hear many teens (Westerners and Asians) saying they want to audition for Korean companies especially SM, YG, JYP and that goes the same for Japan too, but it’s so rare for an ABC to say he/she wants to audition for music companies in China, taiwan & hongkong maybe.
November 24, 2009 at 7:29 pm
@Ivana B. Anonymous
I don’t blame Disney at all. Disney, so far, has worked with the local team and produces local films rather than purely selling their own stuff. They seem to be working with China rather than simply exploiting it. I’m more concerned with how the Chinese government and SMG/Huayi approached the park and the movie than how Disney did.
As for Rainie, I completely understand making a historical error and misunderstanding, but for her to explicitly make fun of mainland in more than one account is just arrogant. Like telling another host that he should go to mainland less or else he’ll become old, or making fun of mainland speech and clothing. She’s right up there with Ken Zhu for being thoughtless and regionalist.
@Benji
I think given the size of China, there are plenty of people whose parents are willing for them to do art. While ABC’s in general are born into a science-based family, I think that in China itself, there are definitely many other families who support art and music. The Beijing Film Institute and Central Drama Academy gets more than enough applicants each year, so I don’t think we have to worry too much about the lack of parental approval.
November 25, 2009 at 3:03 am
@Benji
Do you think you’ll still be running this blog by then, cfensi? c( :
I hope not. I hate blogging. I used to come across a lot of blogs that came off as so pretentious, and after writing this one, I feel like it’s hard not to write a blog and sound somewhat like that. It’s built in to blogging.
But yeah about the other point, I’m in agreement with everyone else – it just seems like Chinese parents would be strict because you hear all these articles about it, but they’re not all like that, and not all kids listen.
And again, from a Chinese-American standpoint, we get a filtered viewpoint, since most of the Chinese allowed to come to the US are scholarly, and probably pass that attitude towards their kids.
I really like that Chinese stars went to university to study music rather than in a music company. It gives me a sense of professionalism – like it wasn’t fame that drew them to their art, but love of the art itself.
@yelei – I don’t think many people knew there were mainland companies before.
November 25, 2009 at 4:42 am
Well, I think it’s less about ‘not’ wanting your children to be an entertainer and more about wanting your child to take a prestigious career path.
Of course there’s more to it than just wanting your child to become a doctor, lawyer, scientist, engineer, etc. Those jobs are popular because they earn good money, have some kind of prestige attached to them, and importantly, because there’s little risk in pursuing a career as, say, a neurosurgeon. There’s that security because people always need neurosurgeons. (I think)
You have to take into consideration that China is still a lot poorer than South Korea or Japan, and that the elderly in China rely more on their children and grandchildren to support them. There might be less reluctance in wealthier families who can support themselves, but most of the richer areas in China are subjected to the One Child Policy, which means the parents would be placing everything on just one that child.
That’s not to say that parents would not want their children doing music or dance. Chinese-American parents might want their children to go to Harvard or Yale, but I don’t think they’d complain if their kids went to Juilliard, either.
Again, I think in tens years, we’ll see a lot more ‘real’ idols being produced than Sichuan Conservatory of Music graduates in the industry. Once there’s no longer that need to do better than your parents, then there’ll be much more freedom to join the entertainment business.
Oh, but in ten years, cfensi, hopefully this won’t be the only English-language blog with news on Mainland Chinese entertainment. : )
November 27, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Not quite sure what you mean by “Real idols”? Like Disney-channel stars? (I usually don’t compare China’s future to other Asian countries, but rather the US because their size is similar)
I’ve always felt like higher education was to be admired. We talk about the Sichuan conservatory graduates at length because we like that university. But there are also plenty of Chinese stars who worked their butt off to get noticed like Qiao Renliang, who didn’t attend.
Bottom line is I like ambitious artists who have what it takes to last in the industry, who have that fire that loves the stage and loves spreading their music, and take initiative – either by entering university to perfect their craft, or if they don’t have the grades or the money, do whatever it takes. Even Taylor Swift worked her butt off sending out tapes of her songs to get noticed before she finally got signed.
Idols of the Disney, Johnny’s and SM variety are nice where they pick through lots of applications- but I don’t think they’re absolutely necessary. Although I gotta say – Johnny’s does a hell of a good job maintaining the popularity of his artists.
As for the whole 10 years things, I hope. I can’t believe there still aren’t more sites on cpop. Yay for cpopaccess. I think Chinese Americans are a bunch of idiots. Period. I may understand that their upbringing has made them biased against their own culture, but that doesn’t make me like them better when I see them mock it without having actually researched it. Their self-hate is unbelievable. Whatever. I’m just going to take the next year off because the part I dislike most about all of this is seeing the short-sighted stupidity. It’s frustrating and I feel like smacking people all the time. I live in an area where there are very few Chinese people or Asians in general, and frankly my opinion of them was higher before I started this site.
Now I feel no affinity towards Chinese-Americans anymore. They’re a cynical, annoying bunch that I don’t really empathize with.
November 27, 2009 at 5:41 pm
I have a lot of respect for higher education, and thinks that everyone, if possible, should receive professional training, and not just by the companies.
If you look at the actor/actress side, I can’t help but feel that there is a level of professionalism from film academy students as opposed to newly found ones.
@Benji
I think Sichuan Conservatory of Music produces great idols. While schools like the Central Music Academy are much superior musically, Sichuan Conservator of Music seems to foster a type of individuality in its musicians that gives them life and makes them perfect as idols. But at the same time, they obviously care enough about music/dance to study it without the real chance of film.
And I fear a day when there are “real idols” that haven’t gone to school and can’t sing at all and don’t even like to sing become more prevalent than the Sichuan crowd. Too much Sichuan biase?
@cfensi
I think it’s because many Chinese Americans have parents who came during the worst periods of recent Chinese history, and so they’re taught to be cynical of their origins and China.
November 27, 2009 at 6:25 pm
My parents came from the worst periods too…and told me about them in detail, ableit with context.
It’s still hard not to get annoyed. Especially when Chinese people are like…”I’m waiting to be impressed”. It’s kinda WTF? for me. Your culture is not supposed to work hard to impress you. It has to get grassroots support from its own population in order to thrive and develop.
So many smaller countries can’t have the luxury of large populations to develop their market and thus their entertainment…if their population all had the attitude of Chinese Americans that I’ve seen, they’d be doomed.
November 28, 2009 at 10:57 pm
I agree that a lot of the Chinese American population in my area are skeptics – skeptic of what China can do for them and what China can accomplish.
I also agree that the good of one’s country depends on its citizens, but with due respect, majority of the first-second generation of Asian Americans in the U.S. has been distanced greatly from the motherland. And survival in America means having to adapt to their way of life and culture. This assimilation has been dug deep into the fabric of their life. I know they’re ignorant of their heritage and roots, but I don’t blame them for being that way. They just can’t relate, nor do they find any interest in doing so.
Who are we to pressure them to like their mater country?
Now, if they were spewing lies about their country of origin, and by association, mine’s, then we will have beef. But otherwise, I’m not bothered by their apatheticness.
November 28, 2009 at 11:13 pm
@ benji:
The lack of respect for music/artistry is blatantly apparent in the Asian American’s choice of careers. Most choose to work in fields that guarantees security: i.e., business, medical, law, etc. – the top three choices of occupation most Asian parents aspire for their children. Though this general stereotypical view is starting to lessen, it’s not lifting at a rapid rate. And I attribute this to the fact that a lot of the immigrant Asian parents are still stuck in a backward cycle.
I really despise how backwards the older generation of Chinese Americans are here in the U.S. They had to live a rat race, always fighting for more, thus becoming ever more cynical and opportunistic in their philosophies of life. Because they’re this way, their kids grow up under the same influence. Security means so much more to them than anything else, so venturing into uncharted and “unsafe” occupations like artistry/music/art is absolute ludicrous and completely idiotic move.
*Sigh* And hence, why there’s little respect for the arts, and also the reason why there’s so little variation with the job markets that are saturated with Asians.
November 29, 2009 at 3:59 am
@ Ivana B. Anonymous
I think the main reason is because the 1st gen AAs were able to immigrate due to their educational credentials.
And from their perspective, they did provide a better life for their kids when compared to most of their peers back home (it’s debatable, but at least they see it that way).
So that’s why they push their kids into these safe professions because it worked for them.
Of course the irony is when they complain their kids are “too American” and can’t even speak their native language
November 29, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@Ivana B. Anonymous -
Assimilation’s not what I’m targeting. I don’t begrudge anyone trying to fit in their environment – America or any other place, as long as they don’t resort to mocking another place to do it. I assimilate, although I don’t consciously think of it as assimilating – about 80% of my playlist is non-Asian music. And personally I still think American music is way better as a whole. I don’t talk about Chinese stuff outside of this blog, not even with my parents. My mom recently said to me excitedly – hey Chinese film are really getting better! I was like – uh, yeah.
It’s the people who already made that leap into wanting to idolize Asian culture but still mock their own specifically. Or they’re so wrapped up in their one particular idol that they won’t give new Chinese artists a chance even though they’re Chinese. Specific idols are fleeting (JTT anyone?) and come and go, but your culture is always a part of you. For Chinese Americans…they can’t even avoid it. China’s too big and getting too powerful in terms of economy.
I realize my expectations for Chinese Americans are high considering their background. But mostly, I’m just exasperated because I really, really, hate blogging. For the past few years I only went online to download stuff, find some news. I never went to be part of a “community”…I was a big lurker. This was new to me, and it’s tiring, at least it is now. I never thought of this blog in long term goals because I used to always avoid the internet if I could.
So basically I’m getting anxious for more progress before I ditch this thing so that the momentum is not coming from a blog, but rather an overall push from a population. Yeah, my expectations were too high. I hate wasting my time.
November 30, 2009 at 3:09 am
@Cfensi + JJ:
Then consider yourselves both blessed to be offsprings of intellectual parents.
My parents didn’t gain access into the U.S. through such means. They were accepted because we had relatives here, who also did not make it to the U.S. through that route either. Let’s just say that some illegal dealings took place that eventually admitted them to the U.S. (haha, but as to the details of that, I’m wholly unaware.)
But I digress. The reason as to why I say 1st generation AAs are so backwards is contributory to myself. My parents weren’t accepted as a result of their intellectual capacity, so coming to the U.S., they had less to rely on, and thus, only lower end jobs were available to them. These occupations offer no security whatsoever, nor does it ever ensure a good life.
Perhaps this is the reason why they feel so cynical towards people and life in general. In China, they were happy and invincible, but coming here they have to trade a cushy life with a cruel one. I would be jaded as well.
Though I understand their reasons for being so cynical towards people and their devotion towards China, I still can’t accept the fact that they’re so backwards in their thinking. It’s as if they were stuck in that time in China when revolutions haven’t started yet. Times are changing, but their survival mode hasn’t changed. Thus I get pressured into careers that would make them happy but not me specifically. It’s security they wish for.
Anyhow, I didn’t mean for this to be my sob story (lol), and I had no intentions of spilling my life story online, but since this discussion encourages sharing of experiences (as I’m sure countless others also understand my predicament), I just wanted to add in my 2 cents.
@JJ:
You also made very valid points about why Asian parents chose these occupations — because it has worked for them. But for the most part, I think they chose these careers because they’re safe in the job market, they offer a certain level of prestige (and of course, that’s always important in the eyes of a traditional Asian family), and they pay well. In short, they’re secure.
@Cfensi:
When given the premise that these Chinese Americans want to “make the leap” to learn more about their country, it’s understandable why one would be angered if they start mocking it. Or say, idolize another country’s culture rather than finding beauty in one’s own.
But there’s still a certain stigma attached to liking China, refer to the “panda hugging” comment. Not everyone is as brave as to embrace those who do love their origin country. It’s almost traitorous in a sense, because in the end, you have to question where your loyalties lie. Is it the U.S. or is it motherland?
But I agree, mocking it is also not the way to show love of your culture, and by association, who you are inherently. That is certainly uncalled for, but I would try to discern the reasons for the mockery rather than condemn them. Harsh words can be a double-edged sword. It can teach you something, or it can belittle something else. It depends on the situation and your take on it.
As to the idolization of another country…
In part, I blame the fact that China hasn’t made itself approachable yet — it’s not prepped up enough for the global market, hence why I push for more development in the entertainment field. If you look at Korea, it was still relatively unknown until the whole Hallyu wave started. Many started following it, and trying to trace themselves back to their culture because media glamorized their heritage.
Some may argue that a culture has nothing to prove to others; it is something that should be of interest inherently. But I disagree. Those who are mature and on the road to self-discovery would feel this way, but as most are clearly aware, they are limited to a certain few. To encourage more China-digest, China has to become more appealing and attractive.
November 30, 2009 at 3:48 am
Heh…I just deleted my last paragraph because I get paranoid at putting too much personal info. Sorry.
Yeah, I guess I’m being too harsh. If I were to continue this blog until I’m an old woman…I’d probably be more relaxed about it and just fangirl and post pretty pictures, like when I started the blog and it was just for my amusement. But now it’s mostly just me being dismayed that if I were to stop this blog right now, there’d be once again nothing, at least from the mainland side. And that’s a shame because it really doesn’t deserve just the few fans it’s got considering how developed it is at this point in time, and it really doesn’t deserve the cynical mocking that some give it. The quality is there, but I guess people’s biases are still there too.
I also wish there was more harmonization btw the HK, TW, mainland etc areas. It’s made things trickier…Korea’s homogeneity certainly helped propel it to attention abroad quicker, whereas I feel the Chinese regions are sometimes attacking each other. Regionalism can be beautiful in showing the diversity of culture, and yet so tricky when one wants something to coordinate and happen smoother, and quicker. China’s life story basically.
November 30, 2009 at 4:06 am
@Ivana B. Anonymous
Among Chinese Americans, there are two main type of people who got here -the high academic and the low-wages workers. But either way, the existence of the former allows the Chinese American to view them as a “stable group,” hence influencing a generation of Chinese American parents to urge their children to go for the stable careers.
On the other hand, in China itself, I don’t think that’s as much an extreme. While my parents both went for the academic, my uncles and aunts are all in relative random professions. While none of them pursues the arts, I know plenty of people who do.
As for the idea of culture. Definitely. I believe that China has not done well in the idea of soft politics -selling itself to the rest of the world as kind and friendly. But that does not mean one should deny it or condemn it if it’s your heritage. One should never deny their own heritage based on what others say. When no one else is standing up for a part of you, you should.
It reminds me of a line from a performance by YaliniDream, a Sri Lankan American spoken artist
“Uncle screams…I don’t care about that backwards country. Because instead of father’s memory, National Geographic shapes his thoughts”
http://vimeo.com/3908681
On the other hand…really, China isn’t any worse than many countries. It just has a bad image. And I’m okay with the fact that it does more internally than trying to impress the West. But in this world, it seems more important to look good than be good.
November 30, 2009 at 4:53 am
Dude…those three guys who placed top three in Absolute Singing are releasing a Christmas EP together. This December. Have they all gone mental?
I know China celebrates Christmas, but I didn’t think it was big enough to prompt all these releases.
You think eeMedia will have a group MV/song again? I hope so…it’d be cute as heck seeing the boys and girls pair up.
November 30, 2009 at 5:08 am
@cfensi
At least Gold Typhoon’s not releasing anything else…they are also a bit strange, though. They crowd with their own company rather than other ones. Claire Kuo, Fan Weiqi, Angela Zhang, Huang Yali and A-mei all released in the two months during summer. It was ridiculous considering how the first four are kind of similar in terms of musical styles that Golden Typhoon gave them.